tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5211673002367960332.post4573559725566906859..comments2023-09-09T02:41:47.167-07:00Comments on Beyond Advaita: STREAM OF THOUGHTS - A QUESTIONRamesam Vemurihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13670447320400400816noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5211673002367960332.post-80541192654433325092012-11-25T11:56:12.356-08:002012-11-25T11:56:12.356-08:00“These exercises are known as "Pranayama"...“These exercises are known as "Pranayama", as you may be knowing.”<br /><br />You can safely assume that I have only faint comprehension of any Sanskrit term. Fortunately, I'm finding your explanations far easier to follow than explanations I've heard in the past. It seems your scientific background has given you practice at explaining complex things in simple terms.<br /><br />It's such a breath of fresh air (for me)!<br /><br />—<br /><br />“In the "flow" or zone .... is a glimpse of Oneness.”<br /><br />Ah, yes, that's what I thought. <br /><br />I find it odd that so rarely do I read about flow as a means by which people can see, as plain as day, that <i>they</i> can glimpse Oneness — and when they do it can be a familiar, ordinary experience rather than some wild supernatural state.<br /><br />—<br /><br />“... this Oneness is NOT an experience because there is absolutely no experiencer ...”<br /><br />So it seems to me. That's why I said “I become that which I'm doing — or at least that's how it appears in retrospect.” When I'm at one with an activity the kind of cognition that seems tied to “me-ness” pops up only when it is useful as a tool. Then it goes away again. <br /><br />For example, I might be building something and will measure things in terms of cubits or hand-spans. In such cases I'm using “my” body as a tool but the identification can drop away once the tool has done its job.<br /><br />Mind you, if the phone rings just as I'm reaching a crucial moment in the activity the “me” can rise up, snarling. The phone call snaps me out of flow and suddenly they're interrupting <i>my</i> project!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07372222307634605847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5211673002367960332.post-25540534885283176712012-11-25T11:49:52.619-08:002012-11-25T11:49:52.619-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07372222307634605847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5211673002367960332.post-42959117758586085052012-11-25T02:48:31.959-08:002012-11-25T02:48:31.959-08:00ramesam said...
Thanks for the interesting observa... ramesam said...<br />Thanks for the interesting observations.<br /><br />The fact that 'breath' is related to thoughts was understood by the ancient Seers. So they tried to control thought through the control of breath. These exercises are known as "Pranayama", as you may be knowing. But one soon realizes that this is an effortful activity and does not lead to the ultimate Truth.<br /><br />The Ultimate Truth is the natural position which is total freedom, unchanging with time and as a matter of fact it is beyond space-time dimensions. Advaita teaches that this natural state is Consciousness-Beingness-Happiness. If one "ignores" abiding in this natural state, he experiences 'suffering.'<br /><br />"Ignorance" here means identifying oneself with an arising thought instead of remaining as the mere 'Witnessor' of the thought. Identification with the arising thought engenders a 'Me.' That 'me-thought' is the 'ego.' The ego then claims certain things witnessed as mine (e.g. body) and certain things as not mine (e.g external world). Continuing this process, the ego gets more and more consolidated. Hence the key for liberation is "non-identification of oneself with the ego thought." That is to stay without ego.<br /><br />In the "flow" or zone (Mihalay Csikzentmihalyi), at that specific moment, one is not even conscious of one's own self, body, ego etc. The man is one with the activity. There is no separation or separate person claiming 'ownership' of whatever situation that is and 'doership' of whatever actions that go on. This is 'egoless' state. It is a glimpse of Oneness.<br /><br />One also has a taste of Oneness in deep sleep.<br /><br />But the most important point to be noted is that this Oneness is NOT an experience because there is absolutely no experiencer. If there is an 'experiencer', i.e. a claimant for the experience, the <br />individuating 'ego thoguht' has popped up separating the 'person' (the experiencer)to be an entity distinct from the remaining world, thereby creating duality. Duality is suffering.<br /><br />November 25, 2012 2:39 AM Ramesam Vemurihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13670447320400400816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5211673002367960332.post-51205164989940907532012-11-24T19:05:51.412-08:002012-11-24T19:05:51.412-08:00It has become obvious to me that trying to quiet t...It has become obvious to me that <i>trying</i> to quiet the mind is just more movement of thought. The closest I've ever come to this kind of deliberate suppression is to concentrate on not moving. That is to say, I relax my body and then relax my larynx and then my thoughts start looking like yet another kind of movement. I don't know why this works but sometimes it does. I'm <i>not</i> recommending it, though; it seems like just another gimmick.<br /><br />I have noticed, though, that when I am in a state of “flow” (or “in the zone,” to use another common expression) the thoughts arise only when necessary. I become that which I'm doing — or at least that's how it appears in retrospect. <br /><br />The opposite is true, by the way. If, for example, I'm playing the drums and the thought pops up that I <i>must</i> keep the beat, kerpow! I lose the beat. Every time! Thought causes me to drop out of flow. It's so obvious when it happens.<br /><br />I'm puzzled that I so rarely hear mention of flow in discussions of liberation. I wonder if I'm putting too much emphasis on this phenomenon. It'd be great if it <i>was</i> in some way a viable demonstration of liberation, because most people realize that they do experience flow (once it's pointed out to them).<br /><br />I welcome any comments about this!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07372222307634605847noreply@blogger.com